The Lausanne Global Conversation is on the World Wide Open Network
Autor: Bryan Kliewer and Alan Chambers
Datum: 03.11.2010
Category: Sexualität
Bryan Kliewer, Director of Exodus Alliance, challenges the Church to see the homosexual community as a deliberately unreached people group. Alan Chambers, President of Exodus International, critiques common Evangelical slogans about ministering to homosexual people and calls Christians to be full of grace and truth without contradiction.
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Stichwörter: sexuality, homosexuality, grace, truth, brokenness, Cape Town 2010
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Kommentare: 11
Empfehlungen: 2
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Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
Love the video and its message.
So true. As a missionary to a "hard-to-reach" country one does not bash it or oppose it, but comes to live alongside its people to live out the Gospel, to reach out and to be the light of Christ. How is "hard-to-reach" group within one’s country different?
LGBT group is a mission field, and this field is long ready for the harvest awaiting for the laborers - men and women of God who are willing to love and to share the Good News. God will do the rest - transforming and sanctifying is His job.
Thank you, Alan and Bryan and all the "Exodus people."
03.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ clickmd:
The private message you sent in response to my posting seems to have disappeared, so maybe you realized that we have had profoundly different experiences regarding Exodus and the so called "ex gay" movement. I have nearly 40 years of close experience with them, as I said, and while they may be quite sincere, they are not living out of honesty .... unless this new twist that you claim is how they have altered their message. IF, in fact, they are not having gay sex because of their religious convictions, fine. THAT does not make them ex gay whatsoever .. it does make them celibate. There is simply no such thing as a former or ex gay, and it’s that lie which I utterly refute. IF there is such a thing as an EX gay .. it stands to reason that there exists such a thing as an EX straight .. and the whole premise is pure wishing upon a star. I despise the arrogance that I see coming from them, and in Randy Thomas’s and Alan Chambers cases I am repelled by their fear of facing themselves honestly,admitting that they are gay men,(which they are) who, out of their religious convictions, are living celebate lives. All I am asking for is honesty .. and so far it’s not forthcoming.
04.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ clickmd:
Click just one more thing in response to your post. While there are many in the LGBT community who are not Christians, groups such as Exodus or even other evangelical or fundamentlist groups have honestly destroyed their own credibility and witness within the gay community. HONESTY speaks volumes, and these are people who have consistently shown that they are not honest .. they do not have a transparent or genuine message that stands up under scrutiny. The gay community IS being touched by Christian groups who have shown themselves to be worthy of their trust, and whose voices are credible. The Ex Gay movement .. or most evangelical/fundamentlist movements are not the ones who have that credibility. I’m just telling you. NO ONE is interested in their message other than maybe some who are hoping to somehow fit into the only world they have ever known .. the fundamentalist church world. If it’s important enough to live a lie in order to fit in, so be it.
04.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ clickmd:
Great point about how missionaries, in order to be effective, do not simply bash the beliefs and values of the groups to whom they are ministering. I cannot imagine the difficulty for believers who work with individuals in the LGBT group when the prominent image of Christian believers many of them hold is of someone vehemently condemning them without any words of love or compassions.
25.04.2011
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ EpiscoWill:
I appreciate your perspective on this. I too am quite hesitant to accept that someone can be cured of "gayness" (do not mean for that to sound offensive. I believe you are correct when stating that a life of celibacy is what we are calling these individuals to. I think it is important for the church to realize that. It is easy for Christians to advocate for someone to leave their life of homosexual sin, not even realizing that we are calling for that person to leave behind the only type of sexual/romantic/intimate relationships they have ever known, only to possibly never engage in a relationship of that sort again.
25.04.2011
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ EpiscoWill:
Not sure why the message have disappeared. It is certainly not because we have different view points or convictions :) (I have not been on this site for awhile.)
I am not here to argue or to prove a point. I truly respect you and your life experience. Yet, I cannot simply disregard or erase my journey and my life experience. I have made my choice. And I am thankful to God for His guidance and His hand in my life. I am happy and satisfied. It is my story; it is my life.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence, and on the fence as well :) I have learned not to label and not to judge. To love is a greater challenge.
25.04.2011
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
I hope that the Church can continue to reach the GLBT community in the world. Being a Chrisitan who is also gay I was very surprised by Chambers’ words.
1 John 3: 16-18 tells us how to love, not “with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.” And Acts 8 tells us exactly how the church should treat homosexuals with the Story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch, the racially and sexually "other".
This issue is why churches are dividing and falling apart. I think that the church needs to be equiped. I will continue to pray the bridegroom of Christ.
04.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ robbie_maris:
I just wanted to chime in and thank you for joining in on this conversation. Most of us are sitting here discussing an issue with which we have no personal experience. I appreciate your willingness to engage it critically and hope that you continue to do so.
Blessings to you.
25.04.2011
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
Click, For some reason, either my comments are being purged or something is wrong with the system. Regarding your reponse to my post, it’s apparent that we have had radically different experiences with Exodus and the so called ex gay movement. What they do actually doesn’t impact my life whatsoever other than what I see happening as a result of their hideously damaging message. I hold them absolutely responsible as part of the cause of the bullying and gay suicides that have been happeningl, and I certainly hold them responsible for the part they have played in the laws being passed in Uganda that will mean the murder of who knows how many LGBT people there. While I am sure they are sincere in a pathological way, after nearly 40 years and never ONCE seeing one of them who was anything more than a celibate gay, I am going to stand my ground on the fact that theirs is not a credible message based on honesty. Both Allen and Randy Thomas have shown a continual fear to have honest dialogue with anyone who confronts what they are ... and I believe that very fear of being truly transparent says far more about their lack of integrity than it does any gay person they are calling "counterfeit".
04.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
The most frustrating thing to me about Exodus and groups like them is the fact that they utterly ignore the reality that there are countless thousands of men and women throughout the world who are Gay/Lesbian AND Christian; faithful to Christ and committed to their communities of faith. I attend a wonderful Episcopal Church in San Francisco where I would say that maybe 35% of the community is Gay or Lesbian. These are Christians in the truest sense of what that means; certainly not focused on sex (as it would appear the Exodus folks are), but upon being the presence of Christ in the world around them (us) as people who happen to be gay. I fully realize what reaction you will have as you read this, because I was dismissed and excluded from my own Fundamentalist family because I am gay, yet there was nothing they could do or say to seperate me from the relationship with Christ that overlays my life every single day. I admit that I see very little integrity among the Exodus people, themselves, because of the fact that I have known a vast number of them over the last 40 years and not a single one ever lost his or her same sex attraction (just like a left handed person writing with his or her right hand and announcing to all around them that they are right handed ...). I can name any number of well known names .. people who were often for years involved as leaders in Exodus and groups like it, and without exception they all tell the same story; that they were living a lie, holding on to that lie in order to be accepted in the evangelical world where they chose to live. Does integrity not have any value at all along those in the Exodus movement who are as gay as any gay person out on the street that they (Exodus) call "lost"? I realize that you will do with this what you will, but I felt compelled to share my honest frustration over the total lack of integrity that exists among these people. Honestly means everything to me ... and what I have heard here is not honest, nor is it congruent with who Christ has called us to be.
EpiscoWill
03.11.2010
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
@ EpiscoWill:
Hi, EpiscoWill,
just wanted to share my personal insight on Exodus. I’ve attended several Exodus conferences. I also follow Exodus publications. I am a skeptical person (I do not make conclusions fast and easily), but I truly see them as honest and sincere people.
I have not heard or read any of them promoting "homosexual-to-heterosexual" change. They keep emphasizing "homosexual behavior-to-holiness" change. Over and over they talk about the importance of personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And in their testimonies they honestly admit they face same-sex attraction temptations, yet they choose to submit themselves to the lordship of Christ rather then acting out on their inner impulses. Frankly, I haven’t seen such transparency and openness as at Exodus Freedom conferences.
I highly respect their efforts to educate and to equip the Church with knowledge and practical tools helping her to reach out to the marginalized and stigmatized community.
clickmd
04.11.2010
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