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Kapstadt 2010 Vorab-Dokument

Völkern anderer Glaubensrichtungen die Liebe Christi bezeugen

Autor: Michael Ramsden
Datum: 30.07.2010
Category: Welt-Glaubensgruppen

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Übersetzungen

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Ursprünglich geschrieben in Englisch

Anmerkung der Redaktion: Dieser Vorabbericht zu Kapstadt 2010 wurde von Michael Ramsden geschrieben und stellt eine Übersicht dar zum Thema: „Völkern anderer Glaubensrichtungen die Liebe Christi bezeugen“, welches bei der Vormittags-Plenumssitzung diskutiert wird. Stellungnahmen zu diesem Bericht durch die Lausanner globalen Gespräche werden an die Autoren und andere Personen weitergeleitet und sollen dabei helfen, die endgültige Präsentation beim Kongress festzulegen.

„Und was soll ich noch sagen? Denn die Zeit würde mir fehlen, wenn ich erzählen wollte von Gideon, Barak, Simson, Jeftah, David und Samuel und den Propheten, die durch Glauben Königreiche bezwangen, Gerechtigkeit wirkten, Verheißungen erlangten, der Löwen Rachen verstopften, des Feuers Kraft auslöschten, des Schwertes Schärfe entgingen, aus der Schwachheit Kraft gewannen, im Kampf stark wurden, der Fremden Heere zurücktrieben. Frauen erhielten ihre Toten durch Auferstehung wieder; andere aber wurden gefoltert, da sie die Befreiung nicht annahmen, um eine bessere Auferstehung zu erlangen. Andere aber wurden durch Verhöhnung und Geißelung versucht, dazu durch Fesseln und Gefängnis. Sie wurden gesteinigt, zersägt, starben den Tod durch das Schwert, gingen umher in Schafpelzen, in Ziegenfellen, Mangel leidend, bedrängt, geplagt. Sie, derer die Welt nicht wert war, irrten umher in Wüsten und Gebirgen und Höhlen und den Klüften der Erde. Und diese alle, die durch den Glauben ein Zeugnis erhielten, haben die Verheißung nicht erlangt, da Gott für uns etwas Besseres vorgesehen hat, damit sie nicht ohne uns vollendet werden sollten. Deshalb lasst nun auch uns, da wir eine so große Wolke von Zeugen um uns haben, jede Bürde und die uns so leicht umstrickende Sünde ablegen und mit Ausdauer laufen den vor uns liegenden Wettlauf, indem wir hinschauen auf Jesus, den Anfänger und Vollender des Glaubens, der um der vor ihm liegenden Freude willen die Schande nicht achtete und das Kreuz erduldete und sich gesetzt hat zur Rechten des Thrones Gottes.” (1)

Liebe ist kostspielig. Aus Liebe kann etwas umsonst an einen Empfänger verschenkt werden, aber das bedeutet nicht, dass es den Geber nichts kostet. Es kann alles kosten. Und doch, wenn es darum geht, Völkern anderen Glaubens Zeugnis zu geben, scheinen wir nach Methoden und Mitteln zu suchen, die uns nichts kosten. Aber dies wäre nur ohne Liebe möglich – und vielleicht ist das der Grund, warum es so oft den Klang der scheppernden Symbole und lärmenden Glockenschläge hat. Zurückgewiesene Liebe ist schmerzhaft – Jesus bewies das Verlangen seines Herzens trotz hartnäckiger Zurückweisung. Es ist dringend notwendig, dass wir unser Leben dafür einsetzen, die Verlorenen zu erreichen, so wie er sein Leben dafür eingesetzt hat, uns zu erreichen. Von E.M. Bounds kommt der bekannte Ausspruch, dass die Welt nach immer besseren Methoden sucht, während Gott nach besseren Menschen sucht. Vielleicht müssen wir uns mehr darauf konzentrieren, unsere Herzen zu ändern, als an unseren Methoden zu arbeiten.

Als Jesus seine Jünger auf die Belastungen dieser Welt vorbereitete, sagte er ihnen, dass Schwierigkeiten kommen würden. Vielleicht hatten sie gedacht, dass sie mit Gott an ihrer Seite niemals leiden müssten. Doch Jesus sagte:

Deutsch Translation by: LGC_Translation
Erklärung zu mehrsprachigen Funktionen | Schlage vor, Übersetzung zu bearbeiten

Stichwörter: Zeugnis, Kosten, Leiden, Verfolgung, Märtyrer, predigen, Hebräer 11, Kreuz, Glaubwürdigkeit, gute Werke, wahrhaft

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PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Dan_P (0)
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika

Thanks Michael for the word.  I was really thinking about the church in the west and my church in particular.  It’s pretty easy to go off on them but then I look at my life.  It’s hard to think about suffering in this context when it’s so hard to die to ourselves in the daily activities that clutter up our own lives as per Mere-B.

I have to ask myself if the Muslim friends I witness to really see love for them and for Christ or am I just making noise.  I should really start asking myself what its costing me.  I think too often I invite them into my world and life instead of dying to myself and entering theirs.

This paper taken personally, thanks.


17.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Knud_Jorgensen (1)  
Norwegen

On p.3 you write that "for the early church, everyone was by definition of ’another faith’". Agree, but could you apply this to today? Most of us live in multi-religious situations with ’another faith’ and need sorely biblical advice on how to witness to Christ among other faiths. Does NT give us input relevant for this meeting with and common life with women and men of other faiths?

Knud Jørgensen

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14.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten EMalm (0)
Ghana

Thank you Dr. Ramsden!

I am deeply touched by your reminder to be credibile witnesses  of The Christ and the Cross we preach! Personal intergity in EVERY area of our lives is needed before intergrity in the Church would manifest!

Interestingly, the pursuit of personal intergrity deepens our relationship & intimacy with the Trinity. May the Lord daily put this hunger in our hearts!


14.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Charlie_Fletcher (0)  
Mexiko

Thanks for this reminder to count the cost of Christian witness. It is a message the West needs especially to hear and take to heart in a generation that is constantly being wooed away from sacrificial commitment by the idol of present comfort. Christian witness has always been costly, but gone are the days when missionaries packed their clothes in a coffin, expecting never to return home, and this generation in the West seems particularly averse to long-term commitments, which makes counting the cost of discipleship deeply counter-cultural. 


13.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Phillip_Siew (1)  
Malaysia

Deny oneself, talk up the cross and follow Christ daily is not a slogan.  It’s a reality that one must prepare to experience in a day-to-day basis if one is truly serious about being a genuine, faithful and committed disciple of Christ. This is especially true when one is to be an authentic, credible, and faitfhul witness for Christ among people of other faiths.  While it is true that we should respect people of other faiths, we can only be an obedient disciple of Christ by sharing with them what a wonderful Savior Christ is and the wonderful salvation that He has accomplished for all. In the midst of this, we really need to be prepared to lay down our lives for Christ and His Gospel. A witness for Christ is likely to become a martyr.  But if we are willing to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters, no love is greater than this. Therefore, we need to pray for more love, more genuine and sacrificial love of God which only the Holy Spirit could pour into us (Rom.5:5).


13.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Suhail (0)
Jordanien

Yes it is costly to witness to other faiths. Living in a country of other faith sets ahead of me the challenge to love them while telling them. I don’t know how much we are ready to pay that cost at times. Looking forward to discussing this and having a deeper insight about this important topic. 


13.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Cody_Lorance (12)   
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika

Very important call here.  I’m echoing it on my blog http://codylorance.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-we-prepared-for-cost.html

You are right on with your statement that Christians "seem to be looking for methods and means that cost us nothing".  See you in Cape Town, where I look forward to more.


12.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Maryedemuth (3)   
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika

Thank you for this clarion call to die. It reminds me of Bonhoeffer’s words, "When Christ bids a man, he bids him come and die." So much of what we do in the west has to do with comfort and perceived personal passion. I fear we’ve lost genuine cross-leaning passion, the laying down of the life passion. 


07.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Deborah_M (0)  
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika

It was encouraging to read this advanced paper. You made a lot of great points. They are ones that we need to continue to reflect on and be held accountable to. It’s so easy for us to read it once, apply it and then stray from them down the line, or get distracted.

“What we preach must be evidenced in our lives; otherwise we will always be seen as offering theories and speculations when what the world is looking for is concrete transformation.” That is something that is definitely on my heart! With a lot of people that I work with/minister to, they are fed up with the Church and they’re tired of hearing things from the front of a pulpit and then not seeing people live it out. I agree, that We are to be known by our fruit. Non-believers these days need to see what makes you different and if you’re being real with them. Which also means, we can’t be confined to the church walls. We need to be intentional to build relationships and give of our time, to be around those that need to see what it means to have a real relationship with Christ. 

I hope that this will inspire so many to lay down whatever they may be holding onto and be willing to count the cost to get the love of Christ out there. 


06.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Cotovelo (0)  
Mosambik

¨..the world looks for better methods, and God looks for better servants¨

Thanks for your insights. Here in the North of Mozambique we have seen many missionary families paying heavily for their obedience, including loosing children to ilness etc. The Love you mentioned does seem to take many years to mature and grow and is difficult to have when you are still struggleing with cultural issues etc. Often we leave the situation too early before breaking through the first 3 years.

I like your 5 points, I would maybe interpret the RUN also with an element of EXPOSE. Often we build walls around ourselves.

A very important issue you mention is the FOCUS. Vision is paramount. There are so many needs that can sidetrack us.. but that might not be our calling. But to have a clear calling and to be infused by it, is very needed.

Regards


06.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Ishak_Sukamto (1)  
Indonesien

I agree that witness, love and suffering become a 3-in-1 that unseparated each other. Then I am wondering, how could in imperialist era, people could bring a message of good news together with weapons and the spirit to colonize a certain area. A painful history which didn’t see the love of God inherent with the spreading of Gospel, creating a stigma that Christianity is much more an ideology than a hope that will raise dan recover the human dignity. 

In order to regain new spirit of bearing witness of Christ, we need to confess our failure to live the gospel which we want to proclaiming. We have lived less, talked much. Our lives which didn’t live the gospel   has contributed to create a thick blanket to the sensitivity of unbelievers, make their heart as a hard-court soil not just reject gospel but cynically ignore it.

We need passion of Jesus to bear witness to the love of Christ with people of other faiths.


04.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Rachael_Hosier (0)
Grossbritannien
@ Ishak_Sukamto:

Thank you, your comment has begun to make me realise how much hurt has been caused and still exists by people acting ’in the name of Christ’ but without His love.


06.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Jetteke_N (0)  
Niederlande

Fully given

Obedient listening

Christ centered

Upward

Singleminded

Ajith Fernando once said in a small meeting we had: ’To reach people of other faiths the cross to bear of the Western Christian might be his individuality.’ For so many people live in ’togetherness’.


05.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Jonathan_Pryke (2)  
Grossbritannien

I think you have put your finger one of the key reasons for the failure of the church in Western Europe. What you say reminded me of a church memorial I happened to see, to that commemorated three young men from a village in rural South West England. They were all called John, and they were all fishermen. In 1850, when they were all 21, they sailed with Captain Allen Gardiner as part of his crew on a missionary expedition to Tierra del Fuego, the southernmost tip of South America. They wanted to take the good news of Jesus to the native peoples there. They got there, but after great hardship and suffering, everyone on the expedition died, including the three Johns. What happened to them became known, and their diary was found, and it was the direct inspiration that lead to the founding of the South American Missionary Society. I exchanged messages with a member of the congregation who had written their booklet on the church’s history. A comment she made struck me forcibly. She said that she admired the zeal and devotion of the three Johns, but couldn’t help being saddened by what had happened to them. They had been so naïve. They hadn’t realised what they’d been letting themselves in for. Implication: if they had, they’d have stayed at home and been safe. Secure. That summed up for me why the Church in the West is making so little impact. We put security before sacrifice, and comfort before challenge. But that’s not what Jesus demands of us. Jesus calls us to put our lives on the line for him. I’m praying that the Congress will help us to take that to heart and act on it.


05.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Michael_H (1)  
Schweiz

Thank you, Michael, for illustrating the meaning of witness in general and the cost of witness in particular. I agree fully that it is about a lifelong joyful and painful walk with Christ rather than a quick-fix method. Embracing the theology of suffering is something we Christians living in the West have to learn. I asked myself: Why is it so difficult to learn?

Blessings

Michael H


05.10.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten David_Benson (2)  
Australien

Thanks Michael ... As I sit here in a pleasant cafe reading your article of the inevitable cost of witness, I needed this reminder.


27.09.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten danda (3)  
Australien

Thanks....

" A church that preaches the cross must itself be marked by the cross!"

The same can be said for a person who preaches the Word!

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." Gal. 2:20


26.09.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten ChloeRoberts (0)  
Grossbritannien

Thank you for this reminder to count the cost. Very powerful and challenging. I particularly liked the EM Bounds quote, and also Mere’s encouragement for us to go to those hard/unreached places.

I’m part of the 20’s-30’s generation - the so-called ’missing generation’ in the church today, perhaps especially in the west - and am pondering issues of suffering and cost at this time as part of a challenge to our frequent apathy here, so found this very helpful thanks. 


21.09.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten SARAH_MINA_OGAREE (0)  
Nigeria

Thanks for your very inspiring and challenging views on the subject.

The church in certain parts of the world is loosing its grip on perservering in bearing witness to people of other faiths. Simply because as you said, we are not prepared to "suffer". Suffering for Christ has become an alien word in the christian dictionary of missiology. It definitely must make a come-back before we can see meaningful progress in this kind of evangelization.

"When the foundation is wrong, what can the righteous do?" The converts we are making now need to be given an orientation about what it means to witness or to be ’matryred’ for the cause of Christ. The fear is that there will even be fewer converts because when the tree is not good, the fruit will also not be good. We all need to repent and go back to the ancient landmark.

Sarah Mina


19.09.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 1 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten Lex_L (6)  
Südafrika

Tremendous, as always, from Michael. An excellent challenge for us to take risks.

In the NT this risk dimension included faith for the power of God to touch peoples’ lives.

On the basis of Hebrews 2:3-4 (This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.), I would add to the 5 ’pointers in Hebrews’ Expectation.  That God will work as we witness, adding His witness to ours.

This witness of God is, from a Scriptural perspective, essentially supernatural - and is easily observable in Scripture as well as in the massive movements towards Christianity across the world at the moment. This aspect of our witness to those of other faiths is therefore both evident and necessary.


17.09.2010
PhContributeBy
Antworten Kennzeichnen 0 Daumen hoch Daumen nach unten kshalhoub (0)  
Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika

I am saddened by the fact that we do not talk about suffering, hardship and persecution much especailly with people going to hard places.

Every missionary and follower of Christ must read this article.

Thank you for your bldness!


17.09.2010
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