محاورة نشر تعليق

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني Adnahsar (0)
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No organization is completely immune to corruption. It can infiltrate any place given the right circumstances with the wrong frame of mind of one person. It is the reason why so many people fear giving to overseas missions unless they personally know someone who works for the collecting agency. It is also the reason why there are some people who prosper of the fate of the poor.

04.12.2012

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا

Here is an update, directly related to the posting here on the sad reality of corruption.

We want to let you know about an important petition called Shine the Light—Together! The petition deals with an international fraud, NCI KB, that has seriously affected the public, charities, and especially the church-mission community.  

This petition is an international call for integrity and action---for transparent and verifiable disclosures from individuals, projects, and organizations affected by this fraud.  The petition has a brief update about the fraud with links to core documents for more information. The initial case went all the way to the Swedish Supreme court which upheld the previous verdicts of NCI being an ongoing gross fraud.

(note: NCI was largely an affinity fraud and hence it reveled relationally via trust and in one large mission organization in particular). The comments of the signatories so far are also quite powerful to read, many of them who have been tracking with this fraud since NCI was publicly confronted in 2007.

 Would you seriously consider rallying with others internationally and signing the petition? Important efforts like this succeed as we get more informed and in solidarity spread the word (email, Facebook, etc.).  Note that this petition does not implicate any person or organization---rather it calls for a positive and ethical response by people and organizations in order to help turn around this fraud.

Thank you very much for your support, especially on behalf of the church-mission community. To read and sign the petition, please click here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/shine-the-light-together/

PETRA People Network:  petrapeoplenet@gmail.com

13.04.2012

رد ضع علم 1 يعجبني لا يعجبني friar58 (1)
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Great post and warning to us all.  When I started in Pastoral ministry, I watched an old Presbyterian minister in his 70’s and how he dealt with money.  One Sunday the people who were supposed to take care of the offering left early.  We didn’t realize until it was just he and I left at the church.  Innocently, I just grabbed the plate and was going to lock it up, but he stopped me, we sat there together while we waited on the responsible party to come back, count and put up the money.  But even then, he wouldn’t let them start until all 3 of them were there for accountability reasons.  

It was a great lesson.  Consquently 4 months later a secretary stole a few thousand dollars because she was the only one who was there that day.  Another lesson of the need for continued accountability with money.  We can become vulnerable at any moment.

21.04.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني JoanieD (0)
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@ friar58:

Thanks for sharing. What a wonderful mentor you had! Sorry that the lady wasn’t as upstanding...Unfortunately she proved the point that we are indeed human and have the capability lying within us, waiting for just that moment to tempt us. This reminds me that I must keep my daily prayers even stronger, because we will always be tested and must daily put on our armor every morning; knowing that it is only with GOD can we handle yet another day in this world-without His Armor or protection covering keeping us strong!

04.12.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا

Recently a very helpful article was posted in Global Conversations called Salt and Light: Christians’ Role in Combating Corruption. We appreciate the clear call by the authors for individuals, churches, and the Lausanne Movement itself to take corruption seriously and to take action to prevent and deal with it.

Salt and Light: Christians’ Role in Combating Corruption

We encourage all the Lausanne community to read and discuss it. We also encourage you to have a look at the posting for December 2011 on the PETRA People weblog. This posting references the Salt and Light article and other materials on corruption plus shares updates about a current international fraud case (NCI). It also includes three calls to action (one for the Lausanne Movement). The entry is entitled Confronting Corruption: Insipid Salt and Illusory Light.

 http://www.petranetwork.blogspot.com/

01.12.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني jdb11583 (2)
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I wonder if Christians are seen as even more vulnerable to others. We are supposed to be trusting and honest and, therefore, are seen as those who trust everybody and expect them to be honest as well...If this true, is there a way we can quit being seen as targets? Education is important as well. I read a great article here on the lausanne site about educating congregations and individuals on the charitable/mission organizations they get involved with. Know which questions to ask to make sure one’s money is put to good use (and is not "stolen") would be benificial to our churches.

25.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا
@ jdb11583:

1. Thanks for your comment. I just noticed an article posted on the Lausanne site 31.10.2011 called Salt and Light: Christians’ Role in Combating Corruption.    Is this the sme article to which you refer?

2. Another major update is the PETRA People website, which deals primarily with Christian Corruption and an initial focus on the NCI fraud case. There is so much to learn from this case and so much good that informed people with moral courage can do. This case has seriously affected the international church-mission community (CMC) and its credibility. It is not only the stolen money but also the lack of response of those in the CMC which makes this case so destructive and shameful.

PETRA People website:

https://sites.google.com/site/petrapeople/

PETRA Perople blogsite:

http://www.petranetwork.blogspot.com/

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني japhia1906 (0)
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@ jdb11583:

That’s a good thought. I think there is a perception out there about Christians that says we are naieve and unsuspecting. I notice now more than ever more businesses or contractors in particular specifying that they are "Christian" contractors or slapping Bible verses at the end of their ads. The one’s I’ve dealt with don’t have me convinced but I know it attracts a lot of business.

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني jdb11583 (2)
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@ japhia1906:

Thanks for sharing those websites. Yes, marketing one’s business as a "christian" establishment is a way some attract customers and it supports my point. I’m not saying that all companies that advertise this way are doing it to appear to be trustworthy, but unfortunately some are taking advantage of that Christian characteristic.

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني Mariusbrand (0)
جنوب أفريقيا

Through community farms where everybody are equal, every body shares and owns things corporately as community of Christians as in the first congregation of Acts. Where outside accountants check and edit our books books regularly and everybody should take ownership and do his part of stewardship over the Kingdom’s property. But as soon as an individual or a group of individuals are alone in charge of the resources or money there will be a Jude to steal the money.

pecially in poverty stricken countries. It is a spirit operating and these people cant help themselves. It is our duty to place structures in place as servants so that fraud will be imposible. It can only happen in an open environmennt where every member of the community may at all times have excess to the books and apply stewardship of God’s resources to that community.

20.10.2010

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا
@ Mariusbrand:

Thanks for your comments!

Here is another thought too--good procedures of course require good people to implemet them. By "good" I mean morally competent and skilled people.

For some thoughts as well as New Testament warnings about people who are corrupt and exploit others, see the three entries related to "Member Tares" at CORE Member Care:
http://coremembercare.blogspot.com/search/label/tares

Confronting corruption is risky.

21.10.2010

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني BrimstoneAGS (4)
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@ Mariusbrand:

Community purses can be hard work brother I have tried it and seen it tear commuinties apart. But bravo for going for it. I like that your community has the rightidea about money/property in that it is everyones as much as they have need for it. The only true way to deal with greed is to tkae away the need to own and possess and instead to foster sharing and giving amongst those with whom we have community.

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني tjcooper (0)
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@ Mariusbrand:

I love that you share through community farms. I hope that more community gardens can be started in the city that I live in. 

An important point that you brought up was how there are structures in place that make fraud impossible. All churches need to make sure they have strict procedures in how they handle money. This does not mean that people cannot be trusted but it allows for an honest working environment and prevents people from making bad decisions.

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني japhia1906 (0)
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Thank you for this much needed informantion. This is unfortunately the kind of information people who had no intention of giving in the first place use to justify not giving. 32 billion is an epidemic proportion.

28.11.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا

There is a new web site called PETRA People that deals with the ongoing, pervasive reality of “Christian corruption.” It also focuses on an international fraud case that is currently being investigated and which has seriously affected many people, including myself and many colleagues.  (web site: https://sites.google.com/site/petrapeople/)  Kelly O’Donnell

22.04.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني alearner (0)
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I agree with Pete that all of us have seeds of corruption within us.  Greed can affect anyone, including Christians.  Recently in our community, we have had a pastor go to jail for failing to pay taxes on his very large salary.  I would add to the suggestions already given that we protect ourselves by doing credit and criminal background checks on all our pastors before they are hired. We can no longer assume that someone has no financial issues, just because they are in the ministry.  If our pastors are not honest with their monies, we certainly cannot expect them to be able to model and teach honetsy to their church members. 

09.04.2011

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني Pete_Houston (7)
جنوب أفريقيا

We need humility, honesty and transparency when it comes to money matters.

Humility - all of us have the seeds of corruption within us.  

Honesty - trust nobody implicitly with money.

Transparency - dark deeds cannot survive for long in the light.

Coming with a humble attitude to investigate and implement good financial practices in a church or organisation prevents the feeling of there being a witch-hunt or actions motivated by prejudice.  

Honestly accepting that we all may be corrupted in some manner (or tempted, even from the best intentions) keeps us vigilant in watching that financial best practices are observed and constantly maintained.

Striving to be transparent holds church leaders/mission directors accountable to the broader community (those who give money) and constantly demonstrates that we are above reproach in our stewardship of resources.

20.10.2010

رد ضع علم 0 يعجبني لا يعجبني EgoPatricius (-2)
فرنسا
@ Pete_Houston:

Hi Pete. Thanks for your helpful thoughts--your three points. I’d add that there needs to be some serious capacity building in the Christian mission sector and church with regards to corruption and fraud. One very helpful book for us, which we have discussed with many others and recommend widely:

Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work.    Read a shrot review here: http://douggeivett.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/review-of-snakes-in-suits/

The comments on the vulnerability of affinity groups--like those in churches and mission--are informative and sobering.

21.10.2010

يتوجب عليك تسجيل الدخول أولاً لكي تتمكن من نشر تعليق. إذا لم يكن لديك حساب، يمكن التسجيل الآن (إنه مجاني وسهل!)